Via: Black Germans
In the short film Germany in Black and White (2011) a mixed couple is discussing what actually is German. The German man, who is full of prejudice, talks with his wife about people he feels are different than Germans.
Comment of a mixed-race person: “These types of interracial marriages/relationships are very harmful for biracial children.“
Update:
I forgot to mention the book Germany Black & White by Noah Sow.
She collected a list of stupid phrases and one of them is:
“I cannot be a racist, I have a Black wife / Black children.”
This is the stupidest “argument” of all. Reply: Oh, okay. I didn’t know that scr**wng removes centuries of cultural imprint!”
(And on the side: If sleeping with somebody or being related to someone were a guarantee for impartial contact without suppression, there wouldn’t be dismembered husbands in freezers, siblings fighting about their heritage, children who bitterly break off contact to their parents, or the impulse to burn the ex’s car.)
The short film (below) Schwarz Weiss Deutsch (English title: Germany in Black and White) is played by Fabian Püschel and Eve Wangui
That couple seems so mis-matched! She, the immigrant from Kenya; I guess she's Kenyan since he mentioned that country a couple of times in speaking of Kenyan women in comparison with German women, is headed for a huge disappointment.
ReplyDeleteShe wants children, he hesitatingly talks about HYPOTHETICALLY having a son. He bemoans the gradual disappearance of "German" culture, and she says that immigrants, like their possible offspring, would be what are called "Modern Germans". She speaks of Turkish-Germans as "Germans", and he questions that title for them.
How is their marriage going to last with all his uncertainty about his country's "status" as truly German in the face of encroaching globalization, or in his specific case: a "marriage" with a Black woman?!
This is NOT a pro-mixed marriage film by any means! In fact, it left me questioning how these couples (not only in Germany, but all of Europe and here in the United States) endure in the face of so much differences in opinion from within and without their relationships. VERY INTERESTING FILM, Afro-Europe! Thanks for the enlightenment!
How do they endure? One parent is desperate (the German) and the other is brainless and trying to stay in the country (the Kenyan). This is not a pro-mixed-race relationship like you said. They're together because of what? They see things so differently. The German is defeated (especially on the topic of German culture) and the African is stupid (how many times does she giggle in this video?).
DeleteI just lost a couple of brain cells hearing these two talk.
ROTFL, Truth 2011! I'm STILL SMH after watching this video and I watched it twice! I don't get it. What kind of marriage IS this?
DeleteAnyway, glad you got straightened out with Google Chrome
I just had to reboot my computer and browser and Google Chrome's scripts loaded correctly.
DeleteSadly, I don't see anything new or shocking. This short film is highly problematic on quite a few levels but I'll only address one.
ReplyDeleteWhite European men have bedded (read: raped/dominated/subjugated) black African women for centuries. While white women were at least seen as human, if still regarded as 2nd class citizens, black women were sub-human masturbatory aids. The black woman could NEVER be the white man's equal. She was suitable for sexual gratification and nothing more. She would always be the exotic "other" and ever "apart from" as opposed to "apart of." That's how I read the dynamic of the couple in this short film.
He is strong, male, and pure GERMAN (read: white). She is weak, female, and FOREIGN...ALWAYS an "other" and foreigner, regardless of how well she speaks German or whether she gains citizenship by marrying him. Even if she has his children, they are not true Germans in his mind's eye. German-ness is whiteness.
Even if the Kenyan woman plays the enabling, acquiescent fool to his bigoted fool, at least she has a more progressive, inclusive idea of what it means to be German. It's funny/sad how the Kenyan woman professes their love for each other, which signifies a certain oneness and unity, but the German is reluctant for them to share a unified cultural/racial (having bi-racial children) identity.
SAD but TYPICAL.
OK. Now THAT makes sense, BlkViking!
DeleteBut I'm still left with one final conviction: Trouble ahead. Look, I, BY NO MEANS, am wishing that their "marriage" fail. Just the opposite; I hope it SURVIVES---especially if they have kids. But because of the dynamics that you laid out about this situation, and because the Kenyan wife IS a human being, one day, ONE DAY, she's going to say: "Enough! I've had enough of your insecurities that have eroded our marriage!" And now that I think about it the husband DID mention that she doesn't laugh as much as she used to......Trouble ahead.
Just sayin'.......
i see him as being more of a male chauvinist than a racist. i think he definitely feels there's a distinct difference between ethnic germans and people that are not. but one thing that really bothers me about him is that he feels,and i'm sure he's not the only german to feel this way, that women of african descent are subservient and "submissive". i could tell that when he was comparing german women to african women. he sounded a lot of white american men that make those kinds of comparisons between white american women and asian women. i think that this can be dangerous to her because he seems to be insecure and i seriously doubt if he even respects her opinions as a woman. i think she could do much better than him. she seems to be a really sweet and kind young lady. why she's with him outside of obvious reasons, i'll never know!!!
Delete@ Natalie
DeleteI think his concept of "German-ness," masculinity (read: strength and superiority) and whiteness are conflated, fused into a singular identity...in the same way he conflates his partner's "Kenyan-ness", femininity (read: passivity, submissiveness, inferiority) and blackness. But at the end of the day, I still think that his racism informs his chauvinism more so than the other way around.
I got the impression that he saw German (read: white and strong) women, as either being equal to German men or at the very least, that they believed they were equal to German men. To him, whether male or female, german-ness is equated to whiteness, strength, and masculinity. He sees German women as being empowered and masculine, and therefore less desirable, in part because of their desire to be equal to men. Historically, there has been a strong white European cultural/racial bias to see non-white women (asian and black) as innately submissive and "feminine(primitively docile)," and therefore, inferior. The Kenyan woman's african-ness and femininity (read: inferiority) are interwoven into her blackness. A woman who is Kenyan and black, must be submissive and inferior by default. Whereas a woman who is German and white, is dominant and superior (or at the very least, equal). Here, culture and race, despite gender, define one's inferiority or superiority.
And furthermore, the German man referred to the German Turks as "those people," distancing them from German-ness and white-ness. He may not hate them but he certainly sees them as different and corrosive to the notion of German (white) culture. Racism isn't always violent and aggressive. Oftentimes, it is quite subtle and nuanced.
I would say he is racist towards Turks but then I have met alot of Germans and everyone I have met confess to hating Turks, they also seem to have this I'm from the pure race in back of their mind and therefore only date blondes. I guess because they think that is pure. SMH.
Deletethat was a verry painfull experience to see how low that historic low self esteem black lady was ready to go and try to convince that mam who was admitting the dying of germsn Identity and on the other hand, she was trying to convince him she could help by exposing the fact that the german birth rate was at high time low. that shows how degraded and desperate black women by showing support to and historical oppressing race who has a long resumé as a predator of black. I think she's judst dum and unfortunately has a more and more black women following that patern. Sad reality.
DeleteA small update, just in case. :)
ReplyDeletewow. This video made me sad and verfied what I have thought and said for years after watching black and white couples especially white men with black women, the white men don't respect the black woman's culture they tolerate it, because they were raised not to respect it, so if they have a child he won't want any Kenyan input what so ever, you can see it in his eyes.
ReplyDeleteThe relationship is very complex. I think that guy has a big problem. He's a racist but he's with a black woman. He wants a German woman but doesn't want the hassle or the stress, I've met black miltants with white women who are very similar, the reason why he doesn't want children is because they will be mixed raced she doesn't care.
I am very confused with all this being pure with Germans what is pure? bascially like Blkviking said it's being white and after meeting alot of Germans it's being blonde as well.
Hitler wasn't even German he was Austrian, what if there was an influx of people from Ireland mixing with Germans would he have as much of a problem?
It's like when the film was on he was thinking, damn German culture is dying out and I'm adding to it.
They were talking alot about German culture what about Kenyan culture, if they have a child, the child will be German yes, but will also have Kenyan blood and will be mixed raced.
I don't think the woman is stupid and I don't think she is with him for a passport. She loves him. I actually liked her, I just think she is like alot of black women especially the ones coming from countries like Kenya, naive to the white man because they have been fed some much rubbish, she has an African mentality which is love, he has a very different mentality, some of them are just happy to be with a white man, I thought she was cute but just didn't get it, the only reason he is with her is because by the sounds of it she does everything he says and does it with a smile, something alot of white men say about black women, the same as when white men go to countries like Indonesia
I've said it for along time I don't like seeing black women with white men and vice versa and this is the reason, at least now I have a video I can show.
I think mixed raced relationships work when both parties bring their culture to the plate not just one, then the child grows up balanced because if THIS couple have a child he/she was be seriously confused.
Chico-Rei, this isn't a real mixed couple, actors Fabian Püschel and Eve Wangui are playing it (as far as I know). The sad part of this film is of course that this could be a real conversation, that's why this film looks so realistic.
DeleteVery true
DeleteOK, I know I'm REEEEEEALLY going out on a limb here, and I hope my relatives don't read this blog (sorry, Afro-Europe), :-) but until I read the piercing analyses from BlkViking and Chico-Rei, it never even occurred to me that a White man who marries a Black woman could be racist.
ReplyDeleteI have blood relatives who are happily (I HOPE!) married to Whites and in two cases they are white male/black female situations. After viewing this film and reading the penetrating comments here at the blog, I'm pausing to think: Hmmm, I wonder if it's possible that ".." could have "prejudiced" feelings toward African-American males?
From my personal observations White American males who are married to African-American women "seem" to have neutral, non-emotional opinions toward Black females. But when it comes to Black males, THAT'S when the litmus test will unmistakably show if these guys are harboring any hidden resentment, racial prejudice, and even fear toward Black American males.
It will come out covertly, like: The White father making blanket statements about the "bad living conditions" of Blacks, as if there are no financially-strapped Whites and Blacks hold a monopoly on bad neighborhoods. Or "..." telling his young bi-racial sons to greet me with, "What's up, John". Huh???! I wonder if many White American males in these relationships even feel comfortable in the presence of their Black male in-laws? Do they see us as "The Other"? In their minds are we sooooo "Non-American" that we must be addressed in stereotypical "Blackspeak?"
This film and ensuing discussion have brought up many, many questions that are going to keep me pondering for quite some time----and this scares me!
I've seen it alot. The city where I'm from in England is a haven for mixed raced relationships so much so that if you are a black couple people stare. I'm very serious and I used to work in the only black barbershop in the city so I've seen alot in terms of mixed raced realtionships and I found alot of white men with black women have prejudice against black men not all of them, but quite alot and instantly want to take the black woman out of a black environment and it's the same with white women with black men against black women
DeleteAs I've said elsewhere on this site, I'm the product of a black/white union. My mother is black American and my father was a white Swede. My father was by no means an outwardly hostile, aggressive, violent racist…and in his mind, quite the opposite. But did he hold more nuanced and subtle racist ideas and beliefs? HELL YES.
DeleteMy father was the product of a point in Swedish culture and history where Sweden was outwardly and self-perceived as a progressive, tolerant, egalitarian, non-racist (even post-racial ) nation; the champion of gender equality and against segregation, apartheid and colonization. He came to America, in large part, because of his deep interests and sympathies with the Civil Rights movement and a desire to be in the thick of great social change. After all, he was a “good” Swede.
BUT, for my father and many like him, Swedish-ness, in all of its high esteem, was inextricably attached to whiteness. For Swedes, culturally and historically, the concepts of goodness, whiteness, and Swedish-ness have been conflated into one shining image of virtuosity. On a side note, this is why Sweden is having such a hard time coming to terms with the fact that she isn't as tolerant and progressive as once believed. But it's the idea that white superiority and virtuosity must SAVE the world, in particular, the poor, lowly, inferior downtrodden Africans (blacks) who can't direct their own step. Swedes are the definitive paternalistic white saviors and blacks (particularly Africans), ever the child-like victims in need of saving. This, in part, is what informed my father’s racial/cultural/national identities and the belief system that stems from them.
He was certainly drawn to my mother's harsh "otherness" and the plight of her people. She was a strong, proud, black woman fighting the establishment...and in particular, a black AMERICAN woman. Unlike black women from Africa, black American women are often stereotyped as being strong-willed, attitudinal, opinionated, independent and angry, even. My father conflated my mother's blackness, American-ness and womanhood into this Angela Davis type pastiche that gave him goosebumps! lol
But the real racism litmus test came when I was born. What was I? Who was I?
Legally, I am a WHOLE Swede just like legally, I am a WHOLE American. There are no “half” measures, so to speak. I am one person with two citizenships/identities living side by side. But my father did not see me like that. All the things that make one culturally a Swede, I possess…EXCEPT whiteness, which despite the fact that whiteness is racial and not cultural, to Swedes, one must be white in order to be Swedish. So, to my father, I was never Swedish in the full sense of the word, only half—a fragment. My black American identity was ALWAYS attached to me in conjunction with my Swedish identity as if to say I am neither one nor the other, but a diluted, impure composite of each. As a child, I had white Swedish (legally and culturally) friends who had a Danish or Norwegian parent and they were still, first and foremost, Swedish in the eyes of others. That was never my experience. I remember asking my father one time as a child, “Am I a real Swede? Cause some kids say I’m not.” And he would say, “you are a New Swede.” Not a “REAL” Swede (read: white), but a new Swede (non-white but Swedish culturally). He meant well and he was trying to make me feel better, but it did nothing but solidify my sense of other-ness and isolation. I remember him telling me that because I liked to sing, dance and be raucous, that was my American (read: Black) side. But because I could also be quite serious, austere and cerebral, that was my Swedish side (read: white). WTF? Racist racial essentialism at its best.
I'd also like to add that a lot of "little" but significant experiences like that are what contributed to the eventual demise of my parent’s relationship as well as my choosing to be raised in the United States, within a distinctly black American context. I loved my father, and I know that in his heart, he loved me and always meant well, but at the end of the day, he was just as unconsciously racist as most white-privileged people of his cultural, historical and social locale.
DeleteBlkViking, you've put a lot on our plates for us to carefully ingest, chew, and digest slowly and carefully. Very, very rich!
DeleteWell, if you have any energy left after preparing such a "sumptuous feast of a meal", metaphorically, LOL! I've got a little request. NOT anything that big, but, nevertheless, a favor, if you will.
I have never set foot in any country on the other side of the Pond; all my foreign travel has been in the Americas; six so far, and only one English-speaking. But anyway, since you've lived the experience of being a man who in the United-States is perceived as "Black", I'd like YOUR take on White America suddenly and POOF! as if by magic, shedding itself of all outward racism and racist thought and deed toward Blacks. I mean, they voted in the first Black POTUS so that was supposedly "Le Grande Proof", right? And, how does racism here compare to what you have experienced in Europe?
I hope these questions don't disturb you, but I keep reading and hearing so much about a presumed and assumed "Post-Racial America", and yet, I, living in one of the most tolerant and liberal cities on the planet, San Francisco, have even perceived and even "smelled" the stench of racism here---coming from some of the most "unexpected" communities, even.
Thanks ahead of time! Oh, and remember what I suggested a few threads back: Please, please, please keep that journal going so one day we and the rest of the world can read your anecdotes under one cover.
OK. That's all. 10-4. I'm out.
That's funny you tell your story about your Swedish father, who meant well, but still at his prejudices ingrained in him. My grandfather (red head and Irish) was the exact opposite since he was treated like a N!gger in East Texas. I know of no identity issues with their children (my mother being one) as all assumed the racial title of black American and never thought of themselves as mixed-race. My grandfather was "one of us," which I believe is a testimony to his character giving that the town we are from in that part of the state is basically two families of two different races.
DeleteBritish Americans made other Anglo-Saxons (like the Scots, the Welsh and the Irish) into minorities like black Americans. This is why my grandfather's perspective and viewpoint was remarkably different than your father's, BlkViking.
He was the first person on my mom's side to get an education. I still feel him to this day with my eye color (seeing my cousin's red hair) and the fact that he passed down a blood disease that only people of North European ancestry have (hemochromatosis or iron overload) to me where I basically have to be a vegetarian for life. His legacy lives on. He was no slave master.
lol I like your "energy" John. I can tell you're a cool, interesting character. And thank you for the supportive words. I have no problem whatsoever answering your questions.
DeleteI've said elsewhere on this site that I think America is still one of the most racist countries in the world. Racism is America's greatest sickness, hands down. It is interwoven into the fabric of the nation...a "free" republic built on the backs of the enslaved and the corpses of the Indigenous. SMH. And as far as the election of President Obama, I think America has shown overwhelmingly how racist she still is in the subsequent years since he was put in office. The type of blatant disrespect he has been shown in the media and even in congress by other elected officials would HAVE never happened to a white president. It actually disgusts me.
I essentially grew up in NYC, and more specifically, a very racially and ethnically mixed Brooklyn neighborhood. Interestingly enough, the most overt racism I've encountered living in NYC has come at the hands of other minority groups and not "anglo-saxons."
Outside of NYC, I've lived in Miami, Chicago, Denver, Houston, LA, San Diego, and Seattle. As far as outward acts of racism, the worst things I've encountered have been rude stares, slightly impolite treatment, some unwarranted attention by the police, etc...; you know, the "normal" stuff that Black men experience in the US! lol
For me, American racism speaks the loudest when I look at the affects of institutionalized racism on poor, disenfranchised inner city blacks. I quite literally can't stomach it. It is shameful that in the supposed greatest nation on Earth, black people can suffer such indignities.
For me, the hugest difference in how I perceive racism in the US versus Europe is that America is just more PC about it all...and not by choice, but by force. I think that many white Americans still harbor shallow to very deep prejudices but for fear of being shamed and being seen as ignorant, stupid and un-hip, hide them. Also, people of color in America are numerous, unified and solidified enough that it would be hard to get away with overtly racist things like Black Peter and "Negroe Kisses" (a candy) and not be lambasted for it. In Europe, the black communities are FAR smaller, more disorganized and spread out and so it's more difficult to form a cohesive place of resistance.
@ Truth2011
DeleteVery fascinating, thanks for sharing! Yes, I am aware of the treatment that the Irish received at the hands of...other white people. lol But, like you allude to, the Irish, along with Southern Italians and some Eastern Europeans, were not seen as "white." They only became white as they were ALLOWED to ascend the American class system.
But for blacks, a slave class in the United States who WORE their "inferiority" on their bones, that ascent upward was for more perilous and unlikely.
To me, what's really sad and insane is that it seems that many Irish and Italians have forgotten their history in the United States and like many self-concerned peoples, step on those who were once just as disenfranchised as they were while climbing that ladder. Or maybe that's just something that comes along with becoming American...ah, the price of assimilation. lol
I love all these comments and think this is what makes this blog so good sharing experiences. I would love to meet all you guys.
DeleteMy experience is a little different. I'm black but was raised by a white working class family in a white neighbourhood in England, my foster fathers mum was German so I know alot about German culture, my white family just didn't see colour what so ever, I love them dearly but they taught me nothing about my heritage which is Nigerian, and when I would say I'm Nigerian as well as English they would say no you're English that's it, alot of the problems came as I got older I have a Nigerian name and people would ask where in Nigeria my parents came from etc and what tribe.
My white family would talk about Nigeria as being backwards etc in a superior manner like most Europeans, they actually went to Nigeria in the 70s with my Nigerian family and talk about the negative and never the postive even to this day, being a natural rebel I always questioned this and was labelled a problem by them, by brother just accepted it and now has problems connecting with black people, after years I met up with my parents and built a relationship with them, but my brother hasn't even though they continue to reach out to him, he has children now, mixed raced of course and his white girlfriend who grew up around black people, wants the children to know their Nigerian heritage.
@ Chico-Rei
DeleteI second your sentiment mate! It is utterly fascinating and enriching for me to hear such diverse experiences amongst the African diaspora. Sharing is powerful!
It’s amazing to me how various nations centered around white hegemony each manifest their cultural and social oppression against blackness and otherness. Your English family’s insistence on your being English as opposed to English-Nigerian reminds me of countries like France and Italy that tend to reject ethnic/national sub-groups within their larger WHITE national identities. There is no Afro-French, French-Senegalese, French-Haitian, French-Indonesian, etc… but simply FRENCH. That is how they like to minimize and silence other sub-groups while simultaneously deflecting charges of racism, as if to say, “We don’t see color. We are all one!” Yet, talk to any non-bourgeoisie black Frenchman and you’ll know that’s a load of hog sh*t.
And I think in more Northern European countries like Germany, Netherlands, and Sweden, where whiteness is rigidly attached to national identity, one is either one of us (BORN in our likeness) or not. And even if you are legally allowed to possess their national identity, if you are non-white, in the eyes, minds and hearts of the white populace, then you are not a REAL German, Dutchman or Swede. Their favorite question is “where are you from?” You respond, “Berlin/Amsterdam/Stockholm.” They retort, “No, where are you REALLY from?” lol
@ Chico-rei
DeleteInteresting story Chico. Sounds like your brother is lost (no offense).
Lots to take in after seeing this film and reading all these comments. Who sets standards as to how people should live, act, live life and even procreate? What makes people feel or think they are more pure than others? Even though racism is defined by color, the moment you feel like you are better than someone else, whether they are the same color as you or not, you are more or less practicing racism on another level. Humans love being self-righteous, pointing fingers at what is supposedly wrong but I wonder, do we ever sit down to evaluate what is right and acceptable even when it doesn't fit into the standards that have been there before?
ReplyDeleteI personally find nothing wrong with bi national relationships as long as they are honest. When two consenting adults decide that this is the way to go, who has the right to tell them otherwise? I think people should take the time to search within themselves and consider so many things before lashing out "this is wrong", or "that is acceptable".
Whether black, white or red or whatever other colors as to which humans refer others to...the fact remains that we are all humans, we fall sick, we cry, we die and we procreate. No is special or pure!
nice work
ReplyDeleteThis thing is irony. They are just making racist and sexist comment, to point out stupid things that people can say !
ReplyDeleteI will be more than happy to marry a white woman.If that will change the world And end racism.But too bad i cant.Thats the reason why i would rather stick to my own race..
ReplyDeleteWhat people dont really undestand is one billion zero + one trillion zero is equal zero.And i been experience that.Just because the white person married the black person doesnt mean They are not racist.And everybody are racist their own way White people are racist against white people too.By example white people with red hair And very white skin complexion encounter prejudice from other whites.Working in a grocery store for twenty years i have seen that.Black people are racist against black people too.Because i remember back in high school.There always be something called Haitian Bash every friday after school the African american students always beat the Haitians.While the White kids were always friendly to the Haitians.So to me the world already too much issues for me to deal with.I just dont wanna add more to it.
ReplyDeleteThe worl already have too much fire.So i dont wanna add anymore fuel to the fire.
ReplyDeleteman!! she is hOT
ReplyDelete"but will also have Kenyan blood and will be mixed raced. "
ReplyDeleteSkin color don't have a link to culture. Their son could be as German as any other kid.
Ignorant couple. Period.
ReplyDelete