tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post1179203987270698235..comments2024-03-14T23:42:44.959+01:00Comments on AFRO-EUROPE: African-American blogger Shantology on race and racism in the NetherlandsAfro-Europehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09824302981015575893noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-31791315595532532412013-03-20T01:18:49.517+01:002013-03-20T01:18:49.517+01:00That was a very personal and moving post! Thanks s...That was a very personal and moving post! Thanks so much for sharing your experience about what it's like being a Black person in Eastern Europe!Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01896531632878621005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-14917112250006738442013-03-18T23:24:33.942+01:002013-03-18T23:24:33.942+01:00I am so glad I came across your blog. I live in Ea...I am so glad I came across your blog. I live in Eastern Europe and black community is really tiny over here, or almost non-existent, should I say. For many, being an only child in a white class, only black student in a white school is a reality. Besides that, culturally, this region is far less developed in terms of multiculturalism. Also, the attitudes and behaviour of the locals is influenced by racist propagandas spread from the western countries. <br /><br />So, as you can imagine,as a result, we get all sorts of negative experiences here. As a child you are able to zone it out because you don't really understand it. You don't get why people give you stares,why they act silly in your presence, why a shop assistant avoids putting change into the palm of your hand etc.<br /><br />On the other hand, for Eastern Europeans we are something exotic, sometimes in a positive way. <br /><br />All in all, living in this part of the world as a person of colour is not easy. You feel like an alien, alone in a large crowd. And I guess that is the same when it comes to Europe in general. Black people do not have the same status here as those in the US. We don't really have a community, a diaspora. <br /><br />I guess that the reason why that is benevolence of some of us. We think that Europe is multicultural, we are on the same level as other people so why bother with creating a community? Instead, we try to break it out and blend in amongst the majority population which is white. And for whose benefit? I think we all know the answer.<br /><br />In reality,however, we do not have the same status as them. Many whites in Europe think that this is a 'white country' and we have no place here. Ever heard about 'white genocide' racist propaganda? Check it out, you'll see how many European people think. Nina Camarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10295202202133197277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-76783984343517060912012-10-14T23:26:43.455+02:002012-10-14T23:26:43.455+02:00Anonymous, thanks for the comment. Let me start by...Anonymous, thanks for the comment. Let me start by saying that I have nothing against collaboration. But I presume that you got that impression because of my comment on Shantology’s "our responsibily" comment. Because I know she meant well, I don't want to put to much focus on her comment. But the point I was trying to make is that news on Black issues in Europe is already being published on US Black blogs and websites. But it’s not published because these blog/websites want to support a fight against a certain issue, but it’s because the news is interesting for their readers. I don’t think there should be a US moral obligation to give attention to Black issues in Europe ,or in other places. <br /><br />But the collaboration you are referring to is another kind of collaboration. But that was not what I was referring to. <br />Afro-Europehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09824302981015575893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-12301573288021229782012-10-14T11:16:55.607+02:002012-10-14T11:16:55.607+02:00Dear AfroEurope,
I am an Afro-European American....Dear AfroEurope, <br /><br />I am an Afro-European American. I am someone who has born to Congolese parents in Germany. I have also never set foot on African soil. All I know is the black diaspora. I also lived in Luxembourg and have since lived in the U.S and am a U.S. citizen. I have now spent of my life in the U.S. but I returned almost every 2 years. I also have done two of my internships in Germany in the UK. As someone, who feels exactly like Shantology, I think there is nothing wrong with black Americans imparting their knowledge of organizing, lobbying, and public relations.I interned at a public policy firm that focuses on coalition building and lobbying for progressive issues, and I think such work would serve communities of color well in Europe. Of course it would not need to follow the same format. <br /><br />As someone who is politically active in the US and understands the Afro-European dynamics, I think these exchanges and interactions would serve both communities. The actions of the white majority in certain Western European countries in my opinion are just plain old unacceptable. I think collaboration does not hurt what so ever. As long as organizations are empathetic and respectful of each other's histories then I see no problem. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-49169579876139028792012-10-09T12:02:31.122+02:002012-10-09T12:02:31.122+02:00Anonymous/Truth2011 (10:25 PM), because I don'...Anonymous/Truth2011 (10:25 PM), because I don't know who is now commenting I am going delete these type comments. This is blog for everyone, but I think that we have reached the point that every new visitor has to deal with your now “anonymous” opinion about "Africans". I am going to leave this response to Ylva Habel (because she asked for it), but the delete button the next time. Because this is going nowhere. Afro-Europehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09824302981015575893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-54973037855034206222012-10-08T22:35:38.248+02:002012-10-08T22:35:38.248+02:00Atieno, there was a protest when the book was publ...Atieno, there was a protest when the <a href="http://afroeurope.blogspot.nl/2011/09/black-woman-stereotyped-in-dutch-film.html" rel="nofollow">book</a> was published. I think people aren't interesed of protesting tired against the film. I forgot to mention this in my comment. Afro-Europehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09824302981015575893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-53976139148955114392012-10-08T22:25:32.365+02:002012-10-08T22:25:32.365+02:00In an effort to fit in, some people, far more than...In an effort to fit in, some people, far more than others, sell their souls to not create ripples in the waters. I've seen first hand people who aren't exactly full-blooded preaching and pushing for pride while the ones who bear the brunt of the hostility (usually immigrants) sit aside and talk about how good things are.<br /><br />Recently emancipated slaves actually went back to the plantation owners because the "massa" fed them and looked after them.<br /><br />This seems to be more of the same. And, the comments here and on the Shantology blog, echo what I have been saying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-70263929740152554042012-10-08T19:03:44.459+02:002012-10-08T19:03:44.459+02:00Ylva Habel here again... I don't quite get the...Ylva Habel here again... I don't quite get the meaning of the anonymous person's reply from 8 October AM. the rhetoric is somewhat confusing. What does "only 1/2" mean? Explain, please! I think the tone is offensive in a way that is totally uncalled for. WHat has enraged you so much? And by, the way, Josephine Baker happens to be one of my research interests, so you can find some articles on the web, if you are interested.<br /><br />And dear brave Anonymous... I'm not sure if it is me, you are addressing, but since we do not know each other, I do not think that you can measure how much/little of "Africa" there is in me. And what, by the way, is "Africa". A fantasy of yours? LOL <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-70161430723852356232012-10-08T16:53:35.181+02:002012-10-08T16:53:35.181+02:00The "white world-making" comment above i...The "white world-making" comment above is dead on. Underlying all of the disagreement in Europe about racism, multiculturalism and what it all means is a fundamental lie: Racism is NOT an American invention. It is a European concept. Racism is not the same thing as tribalism and it is a relatively recent (dating from the European Enlightenment) development in human history. Over the past several decades, Europe has done a fantastic job of whitewashing its own collective history and divesting itself of responsibility for 1) creating racism, 2) wrapping it up in faux science, then 3) disseminating it around the globe through empire, slavery and colonialism. This devaluing and otherizing of non-white peoples is deeply entrenched in European cultures; it didn't just magically disappear post-WWII.<br /><br />This devaluation and otherization of nonwhite peoples IS racism. Everything that follows from it is just a symptom.<br /><br />What's really sad is how non-white Europeans have been conscripted into participating in and championing their own devaluation as full citizens of Europe. The only people who benefit from pretending racism isn't a problem in Europe is white people who maintain their privilege and power.NiaTruehttp://www.twitter.com/niatruenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-87986246973883757612012-10-08T11:13:21.847+02:002012-10-08T11:13:21.847+02:00Truth2011, why do you care? This is about Africans...Truth2011, why do you care? This is about Africans and you are not African right.<br />So don't bother and just tell your white friends you have nothing to do with those animals.<br /><br />I hope most Black americans feel the same about Monster Ball, a movie that portrayed a Halle Berry full of...dignity....<br /><br />I hope they feel the same about Josephine Baker shaking her naked butt for white men getting well paid for that.<br /><br />Just to say this is a Black issue not an African issue.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-76763470954340223502012-10-08T07:03:16.444+02:002012-10-08T07:03:16.444+02:00Meant to say Sweden not Denmark above.
Africans i...Meant to say Sweden not Denmark above.<br /><br />Africans in Sweden don't want her to criticize Swedish society. They are self-haters like she said.<br /><br />How can she care more about society and racial discrimination than Africans when she's only 1/2? This is what I'm talking about. And while I agree with Shantology that we can't put our expectations on others overseas, I can't help but shake my head reading about this blogger getting harassed on Facebook by Africans for speaking out.<br /><br />What's that about?<br /><br />Truth2011Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-8206564144142742602012-10-08T06:53:31.903+02:002012-10-08T06:53:31.903+02:00This is exactly what I said earlier today, which S...This is exactly what I said earlier today, which Sanza took exception to and it's right of Shantology's blog. This is a quote from a mixed-race black professor and blogger. She talks about how Dutch Africans get on her case when she criticizes Denmark. Is this not what I said about the French population and how, oddly, mixed-race blacks are more proud of being minorities than others? Please read it:<br /><br />"Ylva Habel says:<br />September 25, 2012 at 5:50 pm<br />Hi!<br /><br />My name is Ylva habel, and I’m Assistant Professor of Media and Communications Studes at Södertörn University, Stockholm. I really enjoyed your article! As you probably know already, Black Europeans are in a much, much weaker position than in the US. There is a lot of “white worldmaking” which makes it really hard for us to get a hearing in debates over racism and stereotypes. As I write this, there is a raging debate going on over a stereotypical character in an animated children’s film, called “Little Pink and the Motely Crew” (and yes, the association you are probably making now is correct. See the arguments I’ve posted in my last change of profile image).<br /><br />So, what I would like to add, however gently: we are not passive. Rather, we are constantly bashed, if we so much as whisper about this problem. The “stereotype culture” in Sweden, where I’m from, is unbelievably crude. The last year, there has been a constant increas of images, pouring down over us like acid rain. We are devastated, at least meany of us. Others are numb, and some are even insensitive and self-ahating enough to attack me for criticising (yes blacks internally on FB). For the moment, I have finally had a sort of breakthrough in the almost apartheid-like (“unknown” of course) barring of black critics from getting a chance to write about this in the press. The mass of articles whitesplaining to us that racist representations are not at all racist are ubiquitous for the moment.<br /><br />Please take a look at the self-representational strategies on the page notyourmotleycrew.com<br /><br />What Quinsy is doing, by the way, seems to be heroic work. Give him my best!<br /><br />best wishes,<br /><br />Ylva Habel.<br /><br />Trailer for Little Pink<br /><br />http://www.folketsbio.se/filmer/filmer/1131"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-23306292425427510652012-10-08T05:14:41.161+02:002012-10-08T05:14:41.161+02:00I love this! for its perspective on race relations...I love this! for its perspective on race relations elsewhere. As an African student in the United States -- I came here a little new to the idea of racism. But I have been learning. Now with her response, I respect it and yes, if it was in the US the response would be different. But I wonder, given the difference in history, and racial history, between Europe and the United States -- can we, and should we, expect a similar response to the same stimulus? Is it fair? There is a history of the systematic use of race in the United States to maintain that one group is inferior. Is this the case in the Netherlands? Did the Surinamese community depicted in the movie willingly emigrate to the Netherlands? Once there, are they faced with more institutionalized disadvantages than their white counterparts? If they have access to similar opportunities and what not, is this film then just words of the variety that does not break bones?<br /><br />I ask all these questions because I wonder if this is a "When in Rome..." type of situation. I would love to hear more of your opinion and that of other Black Europeans.Atienohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17773945033718515411noreply@blogger.com