tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post8714701288587070362..comments2024-03-14T23:42:44.959+01:00Comments on AFRO-EUROPE: What I think of Zwarte PietAfro-Europehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09824302981015575893noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-273145251207288922012-11-08T05:28:53.771+01:002012-11-08T05:28:53.771+01:00I'm African American and therefore I'm not...I'm African American and therefore I'm not from the cultures where the Zwarte Piet character (or characters?) are known.<br /><br />But my sense is that it's not just the blackface which is problematic, but it's that with regard to Sinterklaas and Black Pete, the Black character must always play the secondary, subservient role. <br /><br />Anonymous November 5, 2012 2:41 PM, my questions to you are these:<br /><br />Could a Black person or some other Person of Color who didn't look White be considered a legitimate representative of Sinterklaas?<br /><br />And if not, why not? <br /><br />And what does that say about the normative roles of People of Color and the roles of White People? <br />Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-39039641859038455542012-11-05T14:41:56.788+01:002012-11-05T14:41:56.788+01:00Could all of this be resolved if black people inst...Could all of this be resolved if black people instead of white people in makeup represented Zwarte Piet?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-64563830029642825832012-01-09T14:52:07.993+01:002012-01-09T14:52:07.993+01:00Thanks for your nuanced perspective BazomporaThanks for your nuanced perspective BazomporaSibo Kanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17269664665171033560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-56103213429836042022012-01-09T12:08:04.467+01:002012-01-09T12:08:04.467+01:00Apparently, Holland might not be Belgium:
just as...Apparently, Holland might not be Belgium:<br /><br />just as the author of the article, I am a Dutchophone Belgian (I refuse to call myself "Flemish", a neo-tribal epithet that is politically defined to muddy the waters on social issues) and I too never heard Zwarte Piet utter a Black/non-native accent. I know that among the Francophone people, Zwarte Piet is called 'Père Fouettard' ("Father Whipper"), but Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet seem secondary to Santa Klaus there - celebration of which is somewhat blasphemous among Dutchophone adherents of Saint Nicolas. Among Dutchophone Belgians, I heard Zwarte Piet occasionally be referred to as 'Sinterpiet' (about 20 years ago even), giving him the same honorific as Sinterklaas: Zwarte Piet is treated with greater adoration than Sinterklaas even, as Sinterklaas is portrayed as the severe and intimidating one and Zwarte Piet as the friendly and approachable counterpart. It is my observation, that Zwarte Piet is specifically titled Sinterpiet, when henchmen of his own are invoked: the 'helperpieten'.<br />I'm half of Sub-Saharan African descent, but I didn't see Zwarte Piet as possibly representative of Black People until adulthood. Neither have I -ever- felt like Zwarte Piet was somehow derogatory of my father and Black people, in the way I always saw him presented. People adore him. Even I still do! I see the couple Sinterklaas & Zwarte Piet as being similar of Batman & Robin, but dispensing justice only once a year. Zwarte Piet is Sinterklaas' sidekick and not his slave: he does the chimney climbing, because Sinterklaas is OLD. The impression I get is that Zwarte Piet and de helperpieten are respectful of that, which could count on great sympathy from an aging society, also in which pretty much every child adorates his/her grandparents.<br /><br />But from the testimonies about immitation-accents and those images of a hard-handed police crackdown on passive Black protesters in Holland, I get now that I'm only speaking for Belgium.Bazomporahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05526010950254255163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-57109081687959849882011-12-19T23:36:56.718+01:002011-12-19T23:36:56.718+01:00Thanks Book Online!Thanks Book Online!Afro-Europehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09824302981015575893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-39760696540991060382011-12-19T20:44:34.349+01:002011-12-19T20:44:34.349+01:00Book Online: "Sinterklaasje, Kom maar Binnen ...Book Online: "Sinterklaasje, Kom maar Binnen ZONDER Knecht": Download > http://tinyurl.com/ccaxzsx (Deel I), en http://tinyurl.com/c37t7k2 (2)Book Onlinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-42054950254290373262011-12-10T13:50:00.386+01:002011-12-10T13:50:00.386+01:00This is a great article. I live in the states and ...This is a great article. I live in the states and had never heard of Zwarte Pete until today. It's knowledge like this that is so important to have when traveling abroad. If I had decided to take a vacation in December in Holland (for what would have been my first time), I would have arrived scared out of my wits and left with a very bad impression of the country. Thank you for writing about this.D. Ledbetterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06309854463279320836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-88872258903128640402011-12-07T18:08:55.775+01:002011-12-07T18:08:55.775+01:00You're welcome Sibo!You're welcome Sibo!Afro-Europehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09824302981015575893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-74279403938628123322011-12-07T08:13:55.700+01:002011-12-07T08:13:55.700+01:00Thx Erik! Your comment is a very important contrib...Thx Erik! Your comment is a very important contributionSibo Kanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17269664665171033560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-88641838661441192172011-12-07T01:24:14.633+01:002011-12-07T01:24:14.633+01:00This is quitte interesting... The article's pe...This is quitte interesting... The article's perspective is inclusive and comprehensive and a bit naive, maybe, but I like it. People are not very willing to change their traditions because of a minority claim. But it could be easier to try to re-think it's significance and do what we call in Spain "pedagogy". I mean, to teach sensitiveness about it. <br /><br />The Afro.europe's view is very informative, thanks a lot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-63698219399195295562011-12-06T14:44:33.544+01:002011-12-06T14:44:33.544+01:00Sibo, very interesting post. But you wrote that si...Sibo, very interesting post. But you wrote that since more or less 5 years the issue of the black face Zwarte Piet has been raised in Holland. That's incorrect Sibo. <br /><br />This issue has been a real issue here for more than 31 years. It started with the movement "Sinterklaas vieren zonder Zwarte Piet" ("Celebrating Sinterklaas without black Pete” in 1981. Which was later on picked up by the movement "Zwarte Piet is zwart verdriet" ("Black Pete is black sadness") in Amsterdam South East. But these are just two examples of the many protests against it. <br /><br />I don’t know about Belgium, but this is a highly debated theme here. In The Netherlands this issue was also on the agenda of a right wing political party. And a few years ago a few white artists from Switzerland had to cancel their Black Pete exhibition because of serious threats. They wanted to trigger a "dialog". <br /><br />And the Dutch are aware of racial context. The Sinterklaas foundation just recently stated that the character of Black Pete had changed from a Moor to a chimney sweeper. They wanted to proof the feast is not static, but changes with the time. So everyone knows Black Pete is an African. <br /><br />And to end. I don't agree that it had something to do with the influence of the black American world. Black Pete used to talk in broken Dutch and with a Surinamese accent, so there was clear reference to black Surinamese people in the Netherlands. And it was already an issue after the independence of the former colony of Suriname in 1975. The government abolished the celebration because it was regarded as colonial. The celebration returned in 1990 but with a colourful “black” Pete. Maybe that’s an example for the Netherlands. Although they have tried it (in schools), but they changed it back to the original black character. <br /><br />And the Government of Curacao just recently called Black Pete racist. In the video Antillean filmmaker Quinsy Gario is arrested in Dordrecht (a relatively small city, with a large Antillean community). I am not sure what would have happened if he had protested in Amsterdam.Afro-Europehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09824302981015575893noreply@blogger.com