tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post223059913998584929..comments2024-03-14T23:43:31.195+01:00Comments on AFRO-EUROPE: VIDEO: Hip Hop on trial: Hip-hop doesn't enhance society, it degrades it (London)Afro-Europehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09824302981015575893noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-2720411011743645912012-07-12T10:51:53.124+02:002012-07-12T10:51:53.124+02:00Back in the Seventies, Big Youth had a song called...Back in the Seventies, Big Youth had a song called "Every Nigger is a Star." This song was experienced quite differently in London, than it was in Jamaica. I can remember people debating whether or not to play it (too loudly), or play it at all. We did not need to give our National Front neighbors more of an opportunity to start throwing around the word Nigger, just because they heard it blasting from the window of some council flat sound system headquarters. A local group "!5,16,17" from South London came out with a song "Black Skin Boy" in which the lyrics stated that "...nigger sounds better...," and we reluctantly accepted that yes, back home our parents had heard the word and had sometimes used it to describe those amongst them whose behavior was less than desirable, but we could not and would not use the word to describe ourselves. We the racism we faced was too painful. Hip-Hop has changed the emotional timbre, first here in the States, where I now live, and as I have found out in my journeys back to the Uk, there too. Whether the word, used in its new context, has been a benefit is a matter of perspective. To white society Nigger, Nigga, Negus might as well all mean the same thing, and remember we were being thrown in jail during the Seventies, when conscious reggae music ruled the streets of the UK.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-51192478859120775892012-07-11T04:08:20.215+02:002012-07-11T04:08:20.215+02:00In my opinion the way that racial relations were c...In my opinion the way that racial relations were constructed in America made African Americans more concious and strong while in Brazil we are still crawling. You can do both. Send me an email through my profile here or you can find me on fb as Dani Gomes.Daniela Gomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06249609954827375106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-19646459725033210872012-07-10T05:00:11.264+02:002012-07-10T05:00:11.264+02:00Also Daniela, I can e-mail or add you to my Facebo...Also Daniela, I can e-mail or add you to my Facebook. How do you want to do it?truth2011https://www.blogger.com/profile/01742393873605338858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-63005309748788094432012-07-10T02:42:38.714+02:002012-07-10T02:42:38.714+02:00I prefer the American definition of black too. Har...I prefer the American definition of black too. Harold Ford to Wesley Snips is black in America. Ford has never denied being black but Neymar denies it?<br /><br />Younger whites, in America, that aren't racist actually make a distinction now between mixed black people and less-mixed black Americans. But it isn't out of malice or bad intentions. They think that you should acknowledge a white parent. There's nothing wrong with that. But, society will treat you like a black person. Just ask Halle Berry. That's pretty much was being a black person in America is about. You're grouped by how you look and even mixed raced black people will claim to be black here even over being called "biracial" which is actually accurate.<br /><br />Look at GK Butterfield. It's so funny because he should call himself white, but racists in his little town remember that he had a black great-grandfather so guess which race he chose to be? BLACK!<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._K._Butterfieldtruth2011https://www.blogger.com/profile/01742393873605338858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-88081553346498739562012-07-10T01:46:08.244+02:002012-07-10T01:46:08.244+02:00Truth 2011 - Neymar is a good example of a mixed p...Truth 2011 - Neymar is a good example of a mixed person, his father is black, his mother is white, who has a black featuring, is considered black by the black movement, councious people and some people who aren't concious but have eyes lol and doesn't consider himself as black. <br />The hard thing about be mixed in Brazil is, the system knows that you are black,the State knows that you are black, the police knows white people know that you are black, racist people know that you are black,but you don't know that and suffer racist situations without to know why. <br />Things are changing our census here consider self declaration and nowadays more than 51% of the population is declaring themselves as black (preto) or brown (pardo), and they add this two categories and consider it the black population. It is a small win, because i the past we hade more than 170 definitions of color in the census, only because people didn't wanna say that they were black.<br />Brazil is complicated, for this reason every time when I try to explain for an American our main racial issue here, I tell them that is self identity. <br />In my case, I preffer the American definition, because to my American friends and during the time that I spent in the US I don't need to give explanation about my blackness.<br /><br />MS. Azizi, is a pleasure to tell you all more about the racial issue in my country, for this reason I have my blog afroatitudes.blogspot.com in english and portuguese version, because I can touch the world. <br />If someone here wanna share more information, please send me an email or add me on fb.Daniela Gomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06249609954827375106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-1726209750474313352012-07-09T14:37:10.261+02:002012-07-09T14:37:10.261+02:00Well maybe the USA census doesn't automaticall...Well maybe the USA census doesn't automatically categorize any European as being White since it gives itself wiggle room by stating "The term "White" refers to people <i>having origins in any of the original peoples</i> of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa."<br />-snip-<br />[Italics placed by me for emphasis]<br /><br />Of course, that term "original people", needs to be further defined. Who were the REAL original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa? I don't think those original people had white skin, blue eyes, and straight blond or red hair.Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-22497465816645641712012-07-09T13:44:42.264+02:002012-07-09T13:44:42.264+02:00Well I guess I should never write "this is my...Well I guess I should never write "this is my last post on this subject". I just want to note that truth2011's statement "...white Americans don't consider Spanish, Portuguese and sometimes Italians as white people" was true in the past but IS NOT true now, meaning that since at least the 1960s if not earlier most White people in the United States automatically consider people from Spain, Portugal, and Italy as White people. But if people from those nations "look Black or Brown" (with "brown" meaning what Americans call "Latino/a") then they will be socially categorized as being Black or Latino/a. This is complicated because Latinos/Latinas" can also be members of the White race or the Black race. It's also complicated because of the existence of Afro-Europeans turns the definition of White that the USA Census uses on its head (meaning you Afro-Europeans confuse that definition lol) since what the census indicates is that all people born in Europe [and born in North Africa, for instance) are automatically considered White.) <br /><br />From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_American" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_American</a>:<br />"The Census Bureau defines White people as follows:<br /> <br /><br />The term "White" refers to people having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who reported "White" or wrote in entries such as Irish, German, Italian, Lebanese, Near Easterner, Arab, or Polish...<br /><br />The cultural boundaries separating white Americans from other racial or ethnic categories have changed significantly over the course of American history. Even among Europeans, those not considered white at some time in American history include Ashkenazi Jews, Southern Europeans (Spaniards, Greeks, Italians etc.), Irish Catholics, Eastern Europeans and Germans.[21][22] Early on in the United States, white generally referred to those of British Isles or northwestern European descent.[23]" <br /><br />-snip-<br />Also, Daniela Gomes, thank you very much for your comments. Sharing your personal information and experiences helps us better understand the way race was perceived in Brazil, and how and why for some people those perceptions are changing.Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-13150926154048243312012-07-09T06:40:47.173+02:002012-07-09T06:40:47.173+02:00Also, how does Neymar say he isn't black? He&#...Also, how does Neymar say he isn't black? He's blacker than me!<br /><br />He shouldn't come to America then. Because people will call him black here once they look at his skin color and facial features.truth2011https://www.blogger.com/profile/01742393873605338858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-85675407636408117572012-07-09T06:29:39.095+02:002012-07-09T06:29:39.095+02:00My professor is a white American, not a fake white...My professor is a white American, not a fake white person like in Brazil. He has an English last name (but then again, so do I lol).truth2011https://www.blogger.com/profile/01742393873605338858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-84973736396532681662012-07-09T04:59:57.464+02:002012-07-09T04:59:57.464+02:00He probably were living with concious people like ...He probably were living with concious people like myself. That American black music is an influent factor in the construction of the black identity in Brazil is true, for this reason I have a thesis to write lol it is exactly my research on my master course, but we are a minority, the majority of mixed people here, even those who have strong signals of blackness are still declaring and considering themselves as white. Is your professor Brazilian? What is his name?Daniela Gomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06249609954827375106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-90385511371329801252012-07-07T09:14:45.854+02:002012-07-07T09:14:45.854+02:00My anthropology professor at my university spent t...My anthropology professor at my university spent time in Brazil. And he was saying that mixed blacks were starting to acknowledge their "blackness," due to America and American music. He is a white guy by the way. <br /><br />They will get a reality check coming to America and denying their "blackness." This goes for the "Whites" in Brazil too since white Americans don't consider Spanish, Portuguese and sometimes Italians as white people.truth2011https://www.blogger.com/profile/01742393873605338858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-59556616814130731122012-07-07T04:16:29.479+02:002012-07-07T04:16:29.479+02:00Truth 2011
Racial relations in Brazil are complic...Truth 2011 <br />Racial relations in Brazil are complicated and to say that all mixed people here are saying that is be really optimist. <br />Most people here including some really dark skin people who would be considered black in the US or Europe, in Brazil don't consider themselves as black.<br />As I explained by email for one of our colleagues here, during the 19 century the scholar racial thought in Brazil taugh that if they start to bring white immigrants to here, the country would become white till finish the blackness, so it taught us that we should clean our race because be black was a shame. In the begin of 20 century they taugh us that blackness wasn't a shame but Brazil was mixed, so was a racial democracy, a paradise, so we shouldn't fight against racism. <br />So, most of mixed people here consider themselves as white, even when they have signals of their blackness like afro hair, or lips, or nose they don't know why they are suffering racism.<br />But most of the black identity in Brazil were constructed inspired in African American history and music, so is easier to know someone who knows about Martin Luther King or Malcom X than about Afro Brazilian icons, because our history were hide from us, we didn't learn anything about that on school for example. To learn about the abolition was to learn about a favor that white people did to us.<br />What is happening nowadays, is that some african descent who are also activists (because almost every body is african descent in this country lol) and are proud of their blackness even if they don't have a really dark skin, or really afro hair, are assuming themselves as blacks, as Afro Brazilians, saying I'm proud of my African Ancestry and I choose to declare myself as black. It is my case for example. My family is totally mixed, but it was mixed during the colonization, so I have portuguese, indigenous, and black blood. I don't have anything of indigenous in my appearence, but although I have a really afro hair, and featurings, my skin is totally lighter, so in Brazil I can declare myself as white, because in my country people give more importance to your color than to your ancestors. For this reason the logical thing was that I shouldn't suffer with racism, but it doesn't happen. Before to realize that I was black, I was treated as ugly cause of my hair, and my black featurings and I didn't know why, and it happens with more 50%of our population, because the majority of AFrican Descent in Brazil are brown, dark skin people here are only 6%. So our work as activists nowadays is to show for those people that they can be proud of their europeans ancestors but they also can be proud of their blacks ancestors, because it isn't ugly or a shame. <br />I declare myself as black, but people here, including black people wonder all the time why I do that, but they don't do that to my sister who is darker than me lol and my whole family in the US would be in the black category. So is really complicated to understand this in few words. <br />I can explain better by email or fb if you wanna.<br />But to say that all mixed people are declaring themselves as black just happen in my dreams lol, because here I have to give explanation about my decision every single day and people are almost putting me in a mental hospital because they can't understand why I wanna be black.Daniela Gomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06249609954827375106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-17290235414606478532012-07-05T17:51:13.756+02:002012-07-05T17:51:13.756+02:00truth2011
Yes, I'm aware that there are a lot...truth2011<br /><br />Yes, I'm aware that there are a lot of different USA state & federal forms. Some of those forms may not include the referent "African American" but it seems to me that most of them have a category of "African American or Black (Non-Hispanic)". For example, here's information about the racial/ethnic categories in the USA Census forms:<br /><br />"The Census Bureau collects racial data in accordance with guidelines provided by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget (OMB), and these data are based on self-identification.<br /><br />The racial categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country and not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically, or genetically. In addition, it is recognized that the categories of the race item include racial and national origin or sociocultural groups. People may choose to report more than one race to indicate their racial mixture, such as “American Indian” and “White.” People who identify their origin as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be of any race.<br /> <br />OMB requires five minimum categories: White, Black or African American, American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, and Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander."...<br /><br />http://www.census.gov/population/race/<br /><br />-snip-<br /><br />Also, there's a difference between the "negro" spelled with a small "n" and "Negro" spelled with a capital "N". The term was retired around the 1960s but since at least the 1990s If African Americans purposely spell that word with a lower case "n", it is meant as an insult to the person who is being referred to.<br /><br />Fwiw, because I've said all that I wish to say on this subject, this is my last comment in this post about racial referents.<br /><br />Peace!Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-23204037709169253492012-07-05T15:08:57.332+02:002012-07-05T15:08:57.332+02:00Azizi Powell: I'm not sure if you've notic...Azizi Powell: I'm not sure if you've noticed this, but on government forms and applications, there is no "African American" category to select. There is, however, "black (not of hispanic origin)" and "black American (not of Hispanic origin."<br /><br />So, it's hard to define yourself as something you can't actually put down. Black Americans advocated for the "black American" racial category. Remember, it used to be "negro"?truth2011https://www.blogger.com/profile/01742393873605338858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-41043717781538944752012-07-05T13:54:22.610+02:002012-07-05T13:54:22.610+02:00I'd also add that while I think this discussio...I'd also add that while I think this discussion of racial/ethnic referents is interesting now and perhaps also as part of a historical/sociological documentation of such discussions, I regret that there's not more discussion about the societal values/influences of hip hop music.<br /><br />But (and also) for those who might be interested in further reading on the subject of group referents , here's a link to a blog post I originally wrote in 2005 about the group referents that many African American have used: <a href="http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2011/09/why-we-call-ourselves-african-american.html" rel="nofollow">http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2011/09/why-we-call-ourselves-african-american.html</a>.<br /><br />Full disclosure - I just added my comment about Caribbean referents which is posted above as an addendum to that pancocojams blog post. I also added a hyperlink to this Afro-Europe blog post.Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-82242929962413526112012-07-05T13:33:19.106+02:002012-07-05T13:33:19.106+02:00I think people should take with a grain of salt (m...I think people should take with a grain of salt (meaning not automatically believe) what any one Black person from the USA says about which self-referent/s or group referents people of African descent (including people of Caribbean descent) use in the USA.<br /><br />I don't believe that there is one definite answer regarding the questions:<br /><br />1. Which referent/s do people use for themselves if they have some Black African descent and they are from the Caribbean and/but they live in the United States? <br /><br />2. Which referent/s for themselves do the descendants of those people so described above use if they were born in the USA and/or they live in the United States? <br /><br />And when can those people and their descendants legitimately refer to themselves as "African Americans"?<br /><br />I think that personal choice plays a BIG role in which referents ALL of these people can legitimately use.<br /><br />On a personal note, my maternal grandmother was from Barbados and my maternal grandfather was from Trinidad. I have no recollection of them EVER referring to themselves as "Bajan" or Trinididian" or "Caribbean". My grandfather died in the late 1950s and probably referred to himself by whichever racial referents for Black people in the United States were being used at that time [Negro, Colored People]. My grandmother died in the 1980s but because of her age and because of custom, she probably also referred to herself as a "Negro" or a "Colored" person. I have no recollection whatsoever of my mother, my maternal aunt, and my maternal uncles ever referring to themselves as "Caribbean" or "Black Caribbean" or "Bajan" or "Trini" or "Trinidadian". They also used/use whatever racial referents for Black people were currently being used in the USA. <br /><br />Note: my mother and one of my uncles were born in the USA, but my aunt and my other uncles were born in Barbados. But, to my knowledge, that didn't effect how they referred to themselves. Also, I believe that my maternal grandparents and my maternal aunt & uncles who weren't born in the USA had green cards, but I don't know if they ever became USA citizens. But my contention is that my relatives who were born in Barbados used the same self-referents as many Black people born in the USA i.e. "Negro", "Colored People", and later "Black" and "African American".<br /><br />Although I'm a Black "Unitedstater" who has some Caribbean ancestry, I have NEVER referred to myself as "Caribbean" or "Afro-Caribbean" or "Black Caribbean". I now use the referents "African American" formally and informally use "Black" or "Black American". However, depending on the circumstances, I might also share that my maternal grandparents were from the Caribbean and I might also share which Caribbean nations they were from. <br /><br />And the two times that my daughter [who is 3rd generation Caribbean on her maternal side] went to the Caribbean festival "Caribana" in Toronto, Canada, she purchased and waved a Trinidadian flag, mostly just for fun. <br /><br />In my opinion, more people should recognize that there are multiple ethnic groups among African Americans. "Caribbean" is an ethnic group/s. So is "Creole" and "Gullah" and so, for example, is "Kenyan" or "Nigerian" when people born in those nations live in the United States and their descendants are born in the United States.<br /><br />Sharing information about my Caribbean ancestry doesn't mean that I'm less of an African American. It just adds more information about my roots.Azizi Powellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963772326145910073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-14764754626353355302012-07-05T03:29:38.969+02:002012-07-05T03:29:38.969+02:00Daniela Gomes, is that true that mixed black Brazi...Daniela Gomes, is that true that mixed black Brazilians are calling themselves black now because of America?<br /><br />I heard out one-drop rule is spreading to Brazil as those who might have black blood (even small amounts) are calling themselves blacks instead of mixed?truth2011https://www.blogger.com/profile/01742393873605338858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-72708342039557537852012-07-05T03:21:12.107+02:002012-07-05T03:21:12.107+02:00That's exactly right. They're from the Car...That's exactly right. They're from the Caribbean and they call themselves Caribbean. But it's always black Caribbean or black Jamaican. <br /><br />I have never heard someone call themselves an African Jamaican or African Caribbean. It's always "black."truth2011https://www.blogger.com/profile/01742393873605338858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-35571220418239971812012-07-04T23:03:14.585+02:002012-07-04T23:03:14.585+02:00Anonymous (both), I understand what you mean.
An...Anonymous (both), I understand what you mean. <br /><br />And Truth, I think we have finally reached an agreement, as always. <br /><br />Jamaicans/Caribbeans in the US are straight from Jamaica/Caribbean, whether it is through their parents or from Jamaica/Caribbean themselves. That's why they're called Jamaicans/Caribbeans.Afro-Europehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09824302981015575893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-77832547490656199092012-07-04T19:51:30.678+02:002012-07-04T19:51:30.678+02:00Many amongst white Americans call themselves Itali...Many amongst white Americans call themselves Italian-American or Irish.<br /><br />And many black Americans want to be called African American.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-19372476738359740322012-07-04T19:08:09.801+02:002012-07-04T19:08:09.801+02:00That is pure logic. He'll also call himself bl...That is pure logic. He'll also call himself black American or black Caribbean. But, he won't call himself African. I can guarantee you that.<br /><br />Africans in France are straight from Africa, whether it is through their parents or from Africa themselves. That's why they're called Africans.<br /><br />It really is no different than with white Americans. They don't call themselves European. Their ancestors haven't been in Europe for a long time. Just like with blacks, more and more. Black Americans is what we like to be called.truth2011https://www.blogger.com/profile/01742393873605338858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-17580276008441932652012-07-04T18:52:21.831+02:002012-07-04T18:52:21.831+02:00Afro-Europe 2 - Thruth2011 0
;)
How about Al...Afro-Europe 2 - Thruth2011 0 <br /><br /> ;)<br /><br />How about Alex Haley,the author of Roots who could traces his roots to Africa thanks to oral tradition in his family?<br /><br />African or Black? Makes nonsenseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-23847118370650734062012-07-04T09:57:42.591+02:002012-07-04T09:57:42.591+02:00KRS One was born in America, but his parents are f...KRS One was born in America, but his parents are from Jamaica. So of course I didn't say that Caribbeans are Africans. I said that if you call second generation French Blacks of African descent "Africans", you should also call second generation American Blacks of Jamaican descent (like KRS One) "Caribbeans". That's pure logic.Afro-Europehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09824302981015575893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-59482405484209395872012-07-04T01:58:41.637+02:002012-07-04T01:58:41.637+02:00This really isn't that complicated. Whites in ...This really isn't that complicated. Whites in America don't call themselves Europeans. They call themselves white.<br /><br />It's the same with blacks nowadays.truth2011https://www.blogger.com/profile/01742393873605338858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7595398753131290281.post-30357779254212436392012-07-04T00:25:06.725+02:002012-07-04T00:25:06.725+02:00Caribbeans are blacks not Africans. Africans can t...Caribbeans are blacks not Africans. Africans can trace their roots to Africa. Africans in France are not far removed from Africa which is why they're called Africans.<br /><br />Do you really not believe that there's no difference between a black American or black Brazilian or Black Jamaican, whose family has been in the Americas for 5 hundred years, with someone fresh off the boat from Africa?truth2011https://www.blogger.com/profile/01742393873605338858noreply@blogger.com